Wednesday, January 12, 2022

A 21st Century version of the Algonquin?


That meme was posted on Facebook a few days ago (Monday, Jan. 1, 2022. What evolved was a conversation among several people about writing and publishing in the new era. It seems interesting enough to share. Due to the vagaries of commenting on that platform, some of the comments are out of order, my apologies.


Carole Trombetta Thoresen
Which one are you, Tim?
  • Like
  • Reply
  • 4d
Hide 18 Replies
  • Author
    Tim Jones
    knowing inDesign you are a step ahead of the others already.. I've always thought there's a good reason most of those are self-published.
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
  • Author
    Tim Jones
    It seems more difficult to get an agent than it used to be to find a publisher. Puitzerr Prize winners have been rejected 11 times "Ironweed." Last great race 13 times. I am working on a novel now that I think would be very difficult to find an agent or publisher for. I have looked seriously at the self-publishing offers in Amazon and Apple. One thing I did was send my three best chapters along with the materials you are talking about. Also, small regional publishers. Queries and proposals don't mean much from an unpublished author.
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
    • Edited
  • Author
    Tim Jones
    Carole Somewhere between 2 and 3 I think. One of the joys of writing fiction is once in a while a character will get up and go a direction you never expected. The last time it happened a new character showed up and did some free style rapping. All part of a plot evolving as you go along toward the vague Idea you have for an ending.
    3
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 4d
  • Carole Trombetta Thoresen
    I thought that’s what you’d say. I am friends with several authors, most of whom have no idea where their stories are headed until they get there. It’s certainly an interesting way to write, but since I can’t write a word anyway, and with my personality, I find it difficult to imagine.
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 4d
  • Betty Sederquist
    Carole Trombetta Thoresen I’ve found the same thing. A character who took over, but then I took most that part of the story out after comments from several of my reviewers.
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
  • Author
    Tim Jones
    Betty, the serious writing happens in the rewriting.
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
  • Betty Sederquist
    Tim Jones I have completely rewritten my "little" 125,000-word Gold Rush historical novel three times now. I think I have a good book, and it's been edited by several friends, fact-checked by a team of people. I've been trying to find an agent, sending out queries and proposals and not even getting ANY kind of reply. So frustrating. Ideas are welcome.
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
  • Betty Sederquist
    Tim Jones Yes, publishers can be such sheep, especially in New York. For example, look at mega sellers like Fame of Thrones and all the clones that have followed. I’m sure the New York group considers Alaska a distant foreign country. I’m sure most of them think of the Gold Rush in tired cliches, if they know anything about it at all. I read somewhere that publishers want a book that can be described in a 30 second sound bite so sales staff can market the book efficiently. I too have considered the Amazon route, but marketing and distribution need to happen. Sometimes that’s harder than writing the book. I have a friend who writes erotic fantasy romances (quite the niche, ha ha), couldn’t get published, and took the online route 20 years ago, was selling gobs of books. THEN publishers took notice. She’s been incredibly successful.
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
  • Betty Sederquist
    Tim Jones And… in my many rewrites I keep hearing you tell me, show, don’t tell. One of the best pieces of writing advice ever.
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
  • Author
    Tim Jones
    Betty One new thing for us, marketing? Yes. But distribution is not a problem with digital publishing.
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
  • Author
    Tim Jones
    Betty I need too listen to my own advice. LOL
    1
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
  • Author
    Tim Jones
    Betty As far as your friend goes, that seems to be the most hopeful route. Also I am sure Hollywood scans new books as well. I got a query from someone movie connected about a year ago about Last Great Race. Judging by the quality of TV shows and movies and remakes and sequels, they must be screaming for good stories.

    1
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
    • Edited
  • Betty Sederquist
    Tim Jones Unfortunately, I think millions of self published books are online. Most of them are drivel. The trick is to rise to the top of the search engines. There some how to books on this. I’m thinking of doing a limited print run, selling locally. (I have a fairly big following.) Also important to get your ISBN. That gets the book into libraries. Fortunately I know InDesign page layout software pretty well.
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
  • Gretchen Small
    Tim Jones this makes.me.so.sad. i know there are so.many awesome unpublished authors....at the same time at least half the books i buy, i abandon before halfway 'cause it.is garbage.writing. it is similar to the problem that led.me.to shitcan my art.career after years and years of fighting the marketing system that promotes slick junk and blackballs anything that might have deep.content. but i think visual.art is easier.to eke by on.... writing is too all.or.nothing. totally sucks and i.can't see.the world getting any less brainwashed to let the industry tell them.what.they should.like. so i.sit.out here in the woods and paint what my soul sees.... occasionally give paintings away to people who "get it".... the rest will.pile up until i am ready for my oil.paint-fueled funeral byre. as.to.you wordsmiths....i wish we lived in a saner, less "matrix" stupid society...
    1
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
  • Author
    Tim Jones
    Gretchen Small Like you, I write mostly for my own pleasure these days.
    2
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
  • Author
    Tim Jones
    Gretchen I found (and saw your example) the joy is in the writing itself, not the possibility of publishing or riches or movie deals and best seller lists. Actually sitting down to the process, immersed in it. overshadows everything else.
    2
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
  • Betty Sederquist
    Small regional publishers might work. Get a good track record there and maybe the big publishers might notice.
    1
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
  • Betty Sederquist
    Tim Jones Very cool about Last Great Race. Actually there are some really good intelligent movies on Netflix and Prime.
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 2d
Posted by at No comments:
Labels: , ,
Subscribe to: Posts (Atom)

Best headlines ever

Naked pair fed LSD gummy worm to dog

Owners of a Noah's Ark replica file a lawsuit over rain damage

In Southcentral Alaska earthquake, damage originated in the ground, engineers say

A headline that could only be written in Alaska: At state cross country, Glacier Bears and Grizzlies sweep, Lynx repeat, Wolverines make history — and a black bear crosses the trail

Man kills self before shooting wife and daughter

Alabama governor candidate caught in lesbian sperm donation scandal

Sister hits moose on way to visit sister who hit moose.

Man caught driving stolen car filled with radioactive uranium, rattlesnake, whiskey

Man loses his testicles after attempting to smoke weed through a SCUBA tank

Church Mutual Insurance won't cover Church's flood damage because it's 'an act of God'

Homicide victims rarely talk to police

Meerkat Expert Attacked Monkey Handler Over Love Affair with Llama Keeper

GOP congressman opposes gun control because gay marriage leads to bestiality

Owner of killer bear chokes to death on sex toy

Support for legalizing pot hits all-time high

Give me all your money or my penguin will explode

How zombie worms have sex in whale bones

Crocodile steals zoo worker's lawn mower

Woman shot by oven while trying to cook waffles

Nude beach blowjob jet ski fight leads to wife's death

Woman stabs husband with squirrel for not buying beer Christmas Eve

GOPer files complaint against Democrat for telling the truth about Big Lie social posts

Man shot dead on Syracuse Street for 2nd time in 2 days

Alaska woman punches bear in face, saves dog

Johnny Rotten suffers flea bite on his penis after rescuing squirrel

Memorable quotations

The best way to know you are having an adventure is when you wish you were home talking about it." — a mechanic on the Alaska State Ferry System. Or as in my own case planning how I will be writing it on this blog.

"You can't promote principled anti-corruption without pissing off corrupt people." — George Kent

"If only the British had held on to the airports, the whole thing might have gone differently for us." — Mick Jagger

"You can do anything as long as you don't scare the horses." — a mother's favorite saying recalled by a friend

A poem is an egg with a horse inside” — anonymous fourth grader

“My children will likely turn my picture to the wall but what the hell, you only get old once." — Joe May

“Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.” — Ernest Hemingway

When I write, I feel like an armless, legless man with a crayon in his mouth.― Kurt Vonnegut

“If you wrote something for which someone sent you a cheque, if you cashed the cheque and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented.”―Stephen King

The thing about ignorance is, you don't have to remain ignorant. — me again"

"It was like the aftermath of an orgasm with the wrong partner." – David Lagercrants “The Girl in the Spider’s Web.”

Why worry about dying, you aren't going to live to regret it.

Never debate with someone who gets ink by the barrel" — George Hayes, former Alaska Attorney General who died recently

My dear Mr. Frost: two roads never diverge in a yellow wood. Three roads meet there. — @Shakespeare on Twitter

Normal is how somebody else thinks you should act.

"The mark of a great shiphandler is never getting into situations that require great shiphandling," Adm. Ernest King, USN

Me: Does the restaurant have cute waitresses?

My friend Gail: All waitresses are cute when you're hungry.

I'm not a writer, but sometimes I push around words to see what happens. – Scott Berry

I realized today how many of my stories start out "years ago." What's next? Once upon a time?"

“The rivers of Alaska are strewn with the bones of men who made but one mistake” - Fred McGarry, a Nushagak Trapper

Many people hear voices when no one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stared at walls all day. Others are called writers and they do pretty much the same thing. – Meg Chittenden

A non-writing writer is a monster courting insanity. – Franz Kafka

We are all immortal until the one day we are not. – me again

If the muse is late, start without her – Peter S. Beagle

Substitute ‘damn’ every time you’re inclined to write ‘very;’ your editor will delete it and the writing will be just as it should be. ~Mark Twain Actually you could do the same thing with the word "really" as in "really cold."

If you are looking for an experience that will temper your vanity, this is it. There's no one to impress when you're alone on the trap line. – Michael Carey quoting his father's journal

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. – Benjamin Franklin

It’s nervous work. The state you need to write in is the state that others are paying large sums of money to get rid of. – Shirley Hazzard

So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence -- Bertrand Russell

You know that I always just wanted to have a small ship to take stuff from a place that had a lot of that stuff to a place that did not have a lot of that stuff and so prosper.—Jackie Faber, “The Wake of the Lorelei Lee”

If you attack the arguer instead of the argument, you lose both

If an insurance company won’t pay for damages caused by an “act of God,” shouldn’t it then have to prove the existence of God? – I said that

I used to think getting old was about vanity—but actually it’s about losing people you love. Getting wrinkles is trivial. – Eugene O’Neill

German General to Swiss General: “You have only 500,000 men in your army; what would you do if I invaded with 1 million men?”

Swiss General: “Well, I suppose every one of my soldiers would need to fire twice.”

Writing is the only thing that when I do it, I don’t feel I should be doing something else.—Gloria Steinem

Exceed your bandwidth—sign on the wall of the maintenance shop at the West Coast/Alaska Tsunami Warning Center

One thing I do know, if you keep at it, you usually wind up getting something done.—Patricia Monaghan

Do you want to know what kind of person makes the best reporter? I’ll tell you. A borderline sociopath. Someone smart, inquisitive, stubborn, disorganized, chaotic, and in a perpetual state of simmering rage at the failings of the world.—Brett Arends

It is a very simple mind that only knows how to spell a word one way.—Andrew Jackson

3:30 is too late or too early to do anything—Rene Descartes

Everything is okay when it’s 50-below as long as everything is okay. – an Alaskan in Tom Walker’s “The Seventymile Kid”

You can have your own opinion but you can’t have your own science.—commenter arguing on a story about polar bears and global warming

He looks at three ex wives as a good start—TV police drama

Talkeetna: A friendly little drinking town with a climbing problem.—a handmade bumper sticker

“You’re either into the wall or into the show”—Marco Andretti on giving it all to qualify last at the 2011 Indy 500

Makeup is not for the faint of heart—the makeup guerrilla

“I’m going to relax in a very adult manner.”—Danica Patrick after sweating it out and qualifying half an hour before Andretti

“Asking Congress to come back is like asking a mugger to come back because he forgot your wallet.”—a roundtable participant on Fox of all places

As Republicans go further back in the conception process to define when life actually begins, I am beginning to think the eventual definition will be life begins in the beer I was drinking when I met her.—me again

Hunting is a “critical element for the long-term conservation of wood bison.”—a state department of Fish and Game official explaining why the state would not go along with a federal plan to reintroduce wood bison in Alaska because the agreement did not specifically allow hunting

Each day do something that won’t compute – anon

I can’t belive I still have to protest this shit – a sign carriend by an elderly woman at an Occupy demonstration

Life should be a little nuts or else it’s just a bunch of Thursdays strung together—Kevin Costner as Beau Burroughs in “Rumor has it”

You’re just a wanker whipping up fear —Irish President Michael D. Higgins to a tea party radio announcer

Being president doesn’t change who you are; it reveals who you are—Michelle Obama

Sports malaprops

Commenting on an athlete with hearing impairment he said the player didn’t show any “uncomfortability.” “He's not doing things he can't do."

"… there's a fearlessment about him …"

"He's got to have the lead if he's going to win this race." "

"Kansas has always had the ability to score with the basketball."

"NFL to put computer chips in balls." Oh, that's gotta hurt.

"Now that you're in the finals you have to run the race that's going to get you on the podium."

"It's very important for both sides that they stay on their feet."

This is why you get to hate sportscasters. Kansas beats Texas for the first time since 1938. So the pundits open their segment with the question "let's talk about what went wrong." Wrong? Kansas WON a football game! That's what went RIGHT!

"I brought out the thermostat to show you how cold it is here." Points to a thermometer reading zero in Minneapolis.

"It's tough to win on the road when you turn the ball over." Oh, really? Like you can do all right if you turn the ball over playing at home?

Cliches so embedded in sportscasters' minds they can't help themselves: "Minnesota fell from the ranks of the undefeated today." What ranks? They were the only undefeated team left.

A good one: A 5'10" player went up and caught a pass off a defensive back over six feet tall. The quote? "He's got some hops."

Best homonym of the day so far: "It's all tied. Alabama 34, Kentucky 3." Oh, Tide.

"Steve Hooker commentates on his Olympic pole vault gold medal." When "comments" just won't do.

"He's certainly capable of the top ten, maybe even higher than that."

"Atlanta is capable of doing what they're doing."

"Biyombo, one of seven kids from the Republic of Congo." In the NBA? In America? In his whole country?

"You can't come out and be aggressive but you can't come out and be unaggressive."

"They're gonna be in every game they play!"

"First you have to get two strikes on the hitter before you get the strikeout."

"The game ended in the final seconds." You have to wonder when the others ended or are they still going on?

How is a team down by one touchdown before the half "totally demoralized?"

"If they score runs they will win."

"I think the matchup is what it is"

After a play a Houston defender was on his knees, his head on the ground and his hand underneath him appeared to clutch a very sensitive part of the male anatomy. He rolled onto his back and quickly removed his hand. (Remember the old Cosby routine "you cannot touch certain parts of your body?") Finally they helped the guy to the sideline and then the replay was shown. In it the guy clearly took a hard knee between his thighs. As this was being shown, one of the announcers says, "It looks like he hurt his shoulder." The other agrees and then they both talk about how serious a shoulder injury can be. Were we watching the same game?

"Somebody is going to be the quarterback or we're going to see a new quarterback."

"That was a playmaker making a play.”